Oracle AppsLab - Latest Comments in Bloggers at OpenWorld

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

Jake — Wed, 28 May 2008 10:11:49 -0000

@Pawel: The details are being worked out right now, but it sounds like PR will offer the same type of program to bloggers.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

Pawel Barut — Wed, 28 May 2008 02:30:39 -0000

Hi Jake,

Will be the same policy kept for OOW2008?
/Paweł

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

Marian Crkon — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:53:20 -0000

Being one of "straight-up consultant" bloggers (as Ann Z called us) I was pleased Oracle extended its invites to us "citizen journalists". I see it as Oracle's attempt to encourage a broader discussion about its products and services than a small circle of professional journalists and analyst could generate.

A waived fee is nice, paid travel expenses would be even nicer. Personally, I will still be in red for the week due to lost consulting revenues. I can't believe we are spending so much time on this issue.

A bigger question for me is what will attendees get from a mega conference like OOW in return for their investment of time and money? How efficient can 1,600 sessions in five days be to "Learn, Experience and Connect"?

Oracle speakers always emphasize that conferences are where Oracle "listens to their customers". It is hardly a two-way discussion. If blogs can provide a constructive feedback and a forum to express opinions to whatever is being presented then the Bloggers at OpenWorld "program" would be a win for everyone. How fair and independent the coverage is is up the blog readers to decide regardless whether Oracle paid for bloggers airfare or not...

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

JustinKestelyn — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:18:30 -0000

Sorry, I meant Peter/Vinnie.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

JustinKestelyn — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:13:39 -0000

Michael/Vinnie - are you guys asking me to fix the entire multi-billion-dollar analyst industry? Sorry, that's above my pay grade.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

mkrigsman — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 12:50:40 -0000

I do agree change takes time, and Oracle has taken a step in the right direction. Usually, the first step is the hardest, so we'll see what develops in the future.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

Jake — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:01:15 -0000

Hey gadgetguy, your comments are borked, so I'm responding here.

You are wrong about intentions, as far as mine are concerned, and since you reference one of my comments, I want to clarify.

My personal intentions for inviting bloggers is to get them access to all the customers, partners, employees, executives, etc. OpenWorld is a great place to mingle and hear people's stories, all of them, not just the case studies.

That said, I am not in charge of the program, which you should know by reading here. The principals involved in this discussion (Vinnie, Jeff, Michael, Dennis) have been critical, but fair. They understand that change takes time and want to be involved insofar as we invited them to the event/into the discussion.

I suggest you do the same, or at least jump into the discussion here. And fix your comments.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

Peter K — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:59:27 -0000

Minor correction.

"Analysts get the whole package paid for but press do not as it would be a conflict of interest." should be "Analysts get the whole package paid for but press do not as it would be a conflict of interest???".

That's for Justin not Vinnie or Michael.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

Peter K — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:55:17 -0000

Michael/Vinnie,
You guys are too funny. Analysts get the whole package paid for but press do not as it would be a conflict of interest.

Justin, are you saying that the analysts who writes research pieces (say either Gartner or Forrester) with their "Magic Quadrant", "Hype Wave" or whatever shows Oracle being in the "Leading Innovator and Implementor", I should take with a grain of salt as they have been paid by Oracle to ensure their ranking whereas others who have been lumped into the lower quadrant did not forked out the required monies to buy the analyst's "opinion and research"?

That's a good one that my CIO is going to have to reconsider paying our subscription fees to these research services for "PAID MARKETING". Me thinks that I have to talk to my Gartner representative regarding getting my subscription fees back.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

mkrigsman — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 18:42:22 -0000

Justin: My blog is definitely analyst-oriented -- I provide analysis and advice, rather than merely report events. Therefore, I'm ready to accept payment from Oracle, and promise I will disclose the client relationship to readers, ensuring intellectual honesty. Should you think I'm joking, rest assured I'm not.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

vinnie mirchandani — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:53:39 -0000

Justin, I just declared myself an analyst again. Where's my check?

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

Jake — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:10:03 -0000

Michael: I saw your post and am working internal channels to find someone to talk to you about ASU (as noted in comment 18), ideally at OOW, to which you are invited. I hope you'll be able to make it.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

JustinKestelyn — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:00:29 -0000

Michael - it's not a question of more/less honest; it's a question of perception. Analysts who accept money are perceived to be credible; journalists are not--regardless of whatever the reality may be. Where should bloggers fit? With the latter, IMO.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

mkrigsman — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:40:54 -0000

Justin,

The fundamental issue relates to integrity, honesty, and disclosing conflicts of interest and payments.

Your comment implies that bloggers are (or should be) more honest than analysts and trade reporters. Care to expand on that?

Michael Krigsman
ZDNet blogger (http://blogs.zdnet.com/projectfailures)

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

JustinKestelyn — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:57:31 -0000

Vinnie, the analyst industry and the trade press advertising industry are in the business of accepting money in exchange for ink; bloggers (ostensibly) are not. That's the difference.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

mkrigsman — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:15:04 -0000

Jake, Check out this post for a great example of how a blogger can work with a software vendor:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/projectfailures/?p=436

SAP was really helpful, open, and forthcoming in my
requests for information, making senior folks available as needed. On the flip side, I committed to write a balanced story. It's a fair trade, in my opinion.

Nothing would please me more than to get inside some of the Oracle stories, so my reporting can be more accurate and insightful. I fully recognize you are pushing this inside Oracle, so please don't infer these comments as being critical of you.

I think Dennis Howlett's post on ZDNet really gets at the same issue, although he expressed it in far stronger terms:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Howlett/?p=201

W

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

Jake — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 01:57:33 -0000

You're not disclosing this to me are you? I'm already aware of these things. Looking forward to Dennis' post.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

vinnie mirchandani — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 00:55:12 -0000

Disclosure - Mike above and I are both members of Enterprise Irregulars. Your blog was discussed a few times in the EI group this weekend. And yes, Dennis is posting on ZDNet tomorrow.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

Jake — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 00:39:55 -0000

No need to move the discussion. I think the history of comments is important to maintain in a single location, especially as new people weigh in Monday. Apparently, the Enterprise Irregulars are watching with interest, and I got wind that Dennis is putting his two cents in tomorrow via ZDN.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

vinnie mirchandani — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 00:12:55 -0000

Jake, sorry - i can move discussion to my blog...do not mean to abuse your real estate...

Justin, can Oracle (if not you) disclose what you pay Gartner, Forrester, and the media in subscriptions, advertising, events each year? ..and that does not in your mind cause a perception of quid pro quo?

I would bet you could fly and lodge and feed a 1,000 bloggers to the conf for less.

...I am also told you are paying expenses of at least some European journalists

Look, it's your conference and you can decide who you invite and what you reimburse or not. But please, let's not invoke independence...

to me it's an investment in lost fees AND travel expenses I cannot justify. Other bloggers you have invited may have a different threshold...

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

mkrigsman — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:28:05 -0000

Jake,

Not sure if I can come, but would definitely be interested to talk with someone about ASU. I continue to think the ASU implementation approach has potential, but that it was poorly executed. However, this is purely an external view and have no information to back up that assertion. I would love to learn about the challenges that caused them to make the decisions they did. Clearly, they had a strategy, I just don't understand it.

Thanks for contributing my name to the list.

Michael

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

JustinKestelyn — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:21:41 -0000

Vinnie, as I mentioned in my own post on this subject (http://blogs.oracle.com/otn/2007/10/12#a1108), this is a major step for Oracle (I'm sure you'd agree). A year ago, the possibility of this development was almost unthinkable.

I see your point re: investment of time, but Peter K is right on the money re "lingering doubts". I spent a previous career as a journalist and accepting T&E to attend a conference was anathema to avoid even the perception of quid pro quo. For some reason the same standards don't apply in the blogosphere, but perhaps they should. (I am not familiar with the nature of such standards in the AR world.)

Yes, the trade off is that only a fraction of invitees will be able to attend. But in my personal view the trade off is a worthwhile one.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

Jake — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:03:15 -0000

Michael: You were on my list of suggestions, and I was told that list was solid for invites. I actually am trying to find you a person to talk to about ASU at OOW.

Registration is open. The process for registering is in my post. I am hoping you can come.

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

mkrigsman — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 20:38:52 -0000

Jake,

Bloggers are indeed hard to control, but engaging them in conversation at least means your side of the story will be told.

Look at my posts on ZDNet regarding SAP, for example: they are critical but balanced. When I need information, there's a single point of contact where I can call and be assured of a timely response. That goes a long way to ensuring the SAP story gets printed.

I should also mention SAP isn't alone in reaching out to Enterprise Irregular bloggers. Include in that group Cap Gemini, Lawson, CA, and others.

By the way, I wasn't invited to OpenWorld. Given that I blog on enterprise software for ZDNet and am a member of the Enterprise Irregulars, hope you will consider extending an invitation next time around.

Michael Krigsman
http://blogs.zdnet.com/projectfailures

Re: Bloggers at OpenWorld

vinnie mirchandani — Sun, 14 Oct 2007 18:44:12 -0000

thank you. Jake, no more comments I promise. I want to invite you to pick on my posts - any time - promise me you will use your real name, though -)